They are never going to get their act together. I spoke with Jim Corridi at the CDA meeting several months ago and he told me big things were coming down the pipeline very soon because he agreed it would be hard to upgrade 3406WD systems with a 3406WD system. He also, however, acted like the Epson was going to be the latest and greatest thing for all of us that sell wide format. Not sure why since we don't typically mess with the ink jet machines. You can find the Epson's extremely cheap...
We were talking with KIP but my father did not want to order 2 or 3 machines at one time for inventory like they wanted us to. I talked with Oce' and the guy was pretty much like talking to a wall and said he didn't need anymore dealers in his territory and pretty much hung up. I would like to have an alternative and not be at Ricoh's mercy. I have tried to upgrade 3406's with 3406's and it doesn't go over that well.
Jason, Talk to KIP again I have never heard of KIP asking dealers to stock machines(maybe one for the demo floor). Plus KIP is releasing the new 800 series next month and these machines look like they should be good sellers. 8 full color "D"s per minute and 10K less that the Oce colorwave. We sell or have sold all the major lines of wide format, KIP, Oce, Ricoh, even going back to Xerox. All our sales reps and techs prefer the KIPs. GR
The Epson thing is a joke. You can buy it on-line for less than you can buy it from Ricoh and so can your customer. I've got a customer right now who is at end of term on a 48 month lease on a LW426 and I have no choice but to go back to them with the exact same machine......oh and my cost is now higher for that same machine thanks to Plotworks (which gets thrown in the garbage). Would love to have KIP now.
Only 16% of W3601 users turned on Plotworks!!! (from PLP) Originally Posted by fisher: The Epson thing is a joke. You can buy it on-line for less than you can buy it from Ricoh and so can your customer. I've got a customer right now who is at end of term on a 48 month lease on a LW426 and I have no choice but to go back to them with the exact same machine......oh and my cost is now higher for that same machine thanks to Plotworks (which gets thrown in the garbage). Would love to have KIP now.
Art, I think the industry is starting to figure out that Oce equipment is not as well built as it used to be. My techs hate working on them. In fact were finding the Ricohs are more reliable than the Oces. GR
I do find the Ricoh's to be very reliable. What they need is speed though, IMO. Have worked with a steel maker on some projects and he has 4 big Oce's that run all day long, 5 days a week. He loved the 3406 but said he would have to buy about 8 or 10 of them do the same work the 4 high speed Oce's run. He wouldn't bite on the 7140's either.
Call that KIP sales Rep again and make a deal with him. If you can get the deal with 2 KIP 9900s (those will replace the 4 Oce's), then you get to be a KIP dealer. He will also spend half as much in toner as those Oce machines just eat toner.
Wide Format is in a big transition right now, I know KIP is no longer going to be putting any R&D into monochrome printing anymore. Its all color from this point forward, I know Oce (or CSA) is thinking the same way. I can't speak for Ricoh but at this point why would you put any money into it. Ink jet is not the answer ether so the Epson deal in not going to get you into too many doors. If the KIP 800 series is priced right (somewhere in the $25K-30K area) a lot of them will be going...
Originally Posted by Art Post: Only 16% of W3601 users turned on Plotworks!!! (from PLP) Originally Posted by fisher: The Epson thing is a joke. You can buy it on-line for less than you can buy it from Ricoh and so can your customer. I've got a customer right now who is at end of term on a 48 month lease on a LW426 and I have no choice but to go back to them with the exact same machine......oh and my cost is now higher for that same machine thanks to Plotworks (which gets thrown in the...
The Epson argument has been going on for years. I brought one product in as a complement product and direct print production sales fought for Epson devices as part of the portfolio. I wouldn't allow it. However, with Vellek in charge of all product marketing, a lot changed. Overall profitability on Epson to Ricoh is about 7-9%. Plus there is no way to lock a customer into a toner inclusive deal when they could by it anywhere on the web. Losing proposition for Ricoh, winning for Epson. I ran...
I'm wondering how the new KIP 800 series are doing. Many of my existing base w/ 5 year old + Ricoh's are asking if Ricoh will have something similar soon. Sounds like they won't? I can't believe that they aren't doing any R&D on it !!
We don't sell the Epson, I do hear that many Ricoh wide format dealers are looking to change. The W3602 is due out something this spring, Ricoh is waiting to exhaust inventories on the W3601. I have not sold a W3601 yet this year and believe I only sold a handful last year, I used to sell at least a dozen a year. The W3602 will have the GUI as the color systems and many of the same features, sad but the GUI and the MFP features will still put us way behind with the likes of KIP & Oce
KIP 800's are doing great!!! Every single customer that has demoed it has ordered one. We have installed 6 and all are running great with no issue, we another 12 on order. Only bad part is it is taking weeks to get them. We may never place a "new" monochrome machine again.
We are getting $.03 per sq ft. That is less than the monochrome machines, this is why I don't see us placing anymore new monochrome machines. We will place some refurbished ones to the customers that have to go low budget. Not only that it blows the Oce Colorwave away. We have a customer who makes these 20 ft full color GIS aerials that cost him $21.00 each to run on the Oce (his numbers not ours) we ran them on the KIP at a cost of $1.76.
I saw the A4 device and a picture of the A3 device at the BTA South East event in Orlando last week. I believe A4 device had a US MSRP price of $2,400. It also included enough ink for 75,000 pages of combined black & color. Cool looking unit, however the bags of ink are huge and a little scary. Would hate to see one of those break in the office.
Hey Art have you been seeing this machine out in the field yet? How is it performing if you have. Epson just sent me info on adding their product line, I gotta say I'm intrigued, but don't really see any reviews of the product from anyone I know in the industry.
I haven't seen one in the field yet. There are a few dealers on this site (pretty regular) that took that product on. @Jason H or eddy jones. they might be able to tell you more than I can. I do like the product though!
@printguy @Art Post We have not sold a single one yet. Most people seem to have no interest in ink. I like the product. It is a Kyocera finisher. The problem with the finisher is that it slows the machine down to half speed. So ultimately someone is getting a 50ppm system, not a 100ppm if you have the finisher. Space is an issue if you have the finisher. I talk about the product to everyone but most people revert back to a toner system. I don't think this is going to be a game changer as...
Thanks for the info @Jason H . That's unfortunate, however I get the aversion to ink. Looking at this product it appeared Epson had perfected it. However I don't think I could sell a copier that has a huge paper curl. I never thought it would have a page curl as there is no fuser.
I think the part of the problem is even though the ink is dry, it has a moist feeling to it. When it drops off into the trays there is a hump (see pic) that the paper drops out on. I think that is part of the problem with the curl. The prints look good and once I lay the paper out on a desk it flattens out but in my opinion it just does not demo well with regular paper.
interesting, I know wonder if Epson demonstrated the device with heavier paper at a few of the events I was at. I didn't see any curl. Not saying that it doesn't, but it wouldn't be the first time peeps did a "controlled" demo
I went back the next day to see a demonstration on this unit. I asked to see a demonstration of mixed sized originals. I was told, "sorry we are only doing controlled demonstrations and can't show that", I then asked does the device have that feature? The rep answered yes. WTF, controlled demo's? Thus, I'm thinking they are hiding something.
Was told the yield for the ink cartridges is 15K based on 5% coverage. Could not get a price for the ink. These PageWide systems are scheduled to be launched in the fall of 2017. BTW, three year warranty on the print head, does not matter how many clicks you put on it.
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