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Would like to see who else is selling this and in particular what your thoughts are for prime candidates for MNS services, meaning how many eomployees would you start at. We had someone in our office stating as little as 5 employees and I'm not so sure about that.

The MNS would consist of contracts for pc's, servers and off-site backup. Ideas, thoughts?
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Art,

We looked at All Care through Konica Minolta but the contract T's & C's were so one sided we thought it was written by the Mafia. The bottom line was they got paid (by the Dealership) whether or not the customer paid you or not.

I was speaking to a VP of a large independent dealer on the east coast who had a discussion with the principal of his company. What it would take for his company to do Managed Network Service. His answer was we can:

1) Hire people
2) Partner with a company
3) Buy a company

What the principal wanted to hear was yes, we can do it with the people we have and it won't coast you anything extra. But it was the job of his VP to tell him the truth, and not just what he wanted to hear.

I laughed a little when he said that because i have had the same conversation with my principal, not just on MNS, but MPS (so had he).

The thinking that we can just take this on, assumes (wrongly) that the key technical people have the time to do more. I once told my boss that I was working 16 hours a day, and he said what are you doing with the other 8 hours (LOL).

This thinking wrongly assumes that the key technical people have the skill set to do MNS or MPS. Just because someone is a good SE and can support the pre & post sale of connected devices, does not mean that they have the skill set to manage Windows 2008 Servers, or Exchange Servers, or Web Servers is misinformed.

We need to make sure that we stay close to our core competencies and if we do branch out to these para endeavors that we bring in people with the skill sets to be successful.

Vince
This is an interesting topic. I'm confused as why copier dealers/mfg think we can manage networks?

Why don't we just get a lift and do car repair too? Or while we are at it repair game consoles, watches and diswashers they all have some kind of computer in them. This is a totally different Industry and there is little to no cross synergy. ASK HP!
Very valid point if a copier company is trying to manage networks with their core people. I've given this Peter Drucker quote before, "Every company needs to prepare for the total abandonment of everything that it does." This is probably no truer anywhere else than it is with our industry. I am convinced that we must expand our sources of revenue or we will cease to exist within 10 years. We have a customer base that we see on a regular basis which gives us the chance to market additional services quickly and inexpensively. It could be phone systems, office furniture, water coolers, vending services, etc. Many of us have chosen network services, website services or Document Management but it is out of necessity. What makes us qualified is the resources we bring in to effectively do the job. What makes us successful is the customer base and the long-standing reputation.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Glory:
Very valid point if a copier company is trying to manage networks with their core people. I've given this Peter Drucker quote before, "Every company needs to prepare for the total abandonment of everything that it does." This is probably no truer anywhere else than it is with our industry. I am convinced that we must expand our sources of revenue or we will cease to exist within 10 years. We have a customer base that we see on a regular basis which gives us the chance to market additional services quickly and inexpensively. It could be phone systems, office furniture, water coolers, vending services, etc. Many of us have chosen network services, website services or Document Management but it is out of necessity. What makes us qualified is the resources we bring in to effectively do the job. What makes us successful is the customer base and the long-standing reputation.


Completely different businesses and core competencies.

The day I see a network company start a true copier division is the day I will concede the two really have synergy.

HP is the only company that tried morphing from a hardware company (i.e. Printers) into network services and they are failing miserably their printers and cartridges are all that are keeping them afloat!
Of course they are different. So is Ford Motor and Ford Motor Credit but the same principle applies.
Are you suggesting that our accounts receivable can't handle managed network invoices? That Accounts payable can't pay vendors who supply network services hardware? That the warehouse is ill-equipped to inventory equipment and parts if they are to cover our network services responsibilities? Those are the people in common. Like I said, what makes us successful are the resources we bring in to do the job. That could be people that are even more knowledgable than you are. The fact that we started as a copier company 20 years ago does not disqualify us from being able to develop a qualified network management division.
According to your logic CDW which has an awesome AR/AP, Warehouse, logistics, order processing and true recurrent B2B customers could do it. Why don't they? Why doesn't everybody? Why not Sears or JC Penny?

Because the businesses don't, won't and never will fit. Networks are like snowflakes each one different and individual, MFPS are like donuts each one the same with different frosting.

Lets take GM and GMAC as the example instead of Ford. So its a 50/50 success ratio not for my money. Even Ford got big by inventing the assembly line, business principles don't change.

I believe and without examples as I asked for, that MNS is peeing in the wind. My $0.02 worth LOL can still measure a click.
quote:
Originally posted by Yoda:
This is an interesting topic. I'm confused as why copier dealers/mfg think we can manage networks?

Why don't we just get a lift and do car repair too? Or while we are at it repair game consoles, watches and diswashers they all have some kind of computer in them. This is a totally different Industry and there is little to no cross synergy. ASK HP!


The company I work for has a full staff IT, programmer, installers, on-site engineers, a manager, I think we have a staff of 5 or 6. We are also Certified Cisco, MS GOLD partner, dell partner and have realtionships with many of the tech distributors.

I guess management thought it was a natural evolution for us. I'm learning, I'm not happy with the commission plan. 6% on going is pretty pitiful when it takes longer to close, more meetings and I have to then work with possible 2 or more staff members to bring everything together.
quote:
Originally posted by Art Post:
quote:
Originally posted by Yoda:
This is an interesting topic. I'm confused as why copier dealers/mfg think we can manage networks?

Why don't we just get a lift and do car repair too? Or while we are at it repair game consoles, watches and diswashers they all have some kind of computer in them. This is a totally different Industry and there is little to no cross synergy. ASK HP!


The company I work for has a full staff IT, programmer, installers, on-site engineers, a manager, I think we have a staff of 5 or 6. We are also Certified Cisco, MS GOLD partner, dell partner and have realtionships with many of the tech distributors.

I guess management thought it was a natural evolution for us. I'm learning, I'm not happy with the commission plan. 6% on going is pretty pitiful when it takes longer to close, more meetings and I have to then work with possible 2 or more staff members to bring everything together.


Sounds like you guys have started a completely new division. As I said earlier there is no synergy, you had to completely start from scratch except for maybe billing, the overhead is incredible and let me guess none of them work on MFP's and the sales people don't want to sell it because its a PIA for little return.

Next, let me guess, (if its not already) will be a quota on MNS tied to MFP payouts. If you sell $30k MFP's with no MSN Commission rate is X% if you sell some contracts it is X+Y% so it will also affect your MFP commissions.

Rephrased if you don't sell MNS you make less on your copier sales.
quote:
Originally posted by Yoda:
According to your logic CDW which has an awesome AR/AP, Warehouse, logistics, order processing and true recurrent B2B customers could do it. Why don't they? Why doesn't everybody? Why not Sears or JC Penny?


Seriously? You don't see a difference between our relationship with our customers and the relationship CDW or Sears has? No wonder you are so tainted. When was the last time someone from Sears walked into the CPA's office that we may visit 5-6 times a year?
We have tried twice and failed twice to start a network division. I would love to do it but have not found the right person to lead it. It is a different business but we have had a local IT company successfully make the jump to copier business and since they control the network they have a strong advantage when it comes to selling the MFP to put on that network.
If you can find the right people to make it work, it makes sense. Some of our partners are asking us to just resell MNS for them and they don't provide any on site assistance, we have to have our own manpower for that. Unless you can build your own team I would avoid this.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Glory:
quote:
Originally posted by Yoda:
According to your logic CDW which has an awesome AR/AP, Warehouse, logistics, order processing and true recurrent B2B customers could do it. Why don't they? Why doesn't everybody? Why not Sears or JC Penny?


Seriously? You don't see a difference between our relationship with our customers and the relationship CDW or Sears has? No wonder you are so tainted. When was the last time someone from Sears walked into the CPA's office that we may visit 5-6 times a year?


I was being facetious when I mentioned Sears.

Just trying to make the point that its not that easy. MPS is easy. Cross train tech guys on HP and Lexmark, that already know imaging basics and turn them loose. Then your synergies take over. Your regular reps sell it and you don't need a stable full of specialists that are persnickety to say the least maintaining it.
Last edited by Yoda

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