Tagged With "maintenance"

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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Wallingford ·
What came next with some dealers in the Oz market, was a guarantee that the client's copy costs would not rise annually, above a maximum of 10% which most clients would agree to. Or that it would only rise by the CPI, which these days is a joke of a deal, as it is only around 2%. But some now guarantee to hold the pricing for the term of the rental agreement, which at 5 years is just down right stupid.This has now become a lot more prevalent, as weak salesmen sell (if you can call it...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Wallingford Thanx for this! From your thread I can tell we all have most of the same issues. Anyone else care to help with their first experience with CPC?
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

txeagle24 ·
I've only been around 9 years, but when I first started, we were selling the old Ricoh AP3800CMF (A3 color printer w/ a scanner kit attached to make it an MFP) since the 1224c/1232c was such a bust. In our Service Agreements, black toner was included in the CPP, but color toner was billable. When trying to get those customers to upgrade to the 2238c, I would create a cost per page analysis (since toner was included in our CPP for the 2238c) and had several furious customers who thought we...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

John Saramak ·
I remember it well and at ComDoc, in the early 80's we sometimes put the offer out there without it being a formal price plan. I think the customer realized that a lot of the toner they purchased and stocked was useless at end of the machines life. It was like a primer with a customer who had that and TCO on their mind, it was a way to close them. Equally, I remember taking it one step further in the early 90's with copy management - the first all inclusive (hardware, service, supplies)...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Old Glory ·
I remember a plan that didn't really take hold but it was a plan like the one John talked about and all accessories were proposed in the form of copies...you want a finisher, just commit to 10,000 additional copies per month. The CPC rate had an equipment portion attached to it so more clicks funded more equipment. If the CPC was normal plus .003, 10,000 clicks added $30/month which would fund $1,500 additional. Some customers that weren't willing to pay $1,500 would agree to 10,000 more...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Wow! These are some awesome stories, I'm sure there are many more out there from some of our veterans, would love to read more.
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Re: Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

muleyman ·
First is this your actual reply to the account looking at thoseToshiba products listed (455 & 305)? If yes and they have a great history with the Toshiba product, telling them there a "bottom dweller" would make anyone think that you're only wanting to sell them what YOU'RE offering. The models they requested are older models of Toshiba and who knows if they've worked well for them or not. Also if you research the Okidata product, most of their MFP's are based on the Toshiba platform now...
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Re: Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

Art Post ·
Actually, I did not mention that I am offering any equipment to them. I'm not even sure where they are located, I'm not looking to sell them, All of the recent MFP's that I've seen at the shows have pretty much the same GUI> I do remember something about a more robust partnering with Toshiba/
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Re: Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

TimB ·
FYI: Toshiba, overall, is in the top ten for R&D Spend-to-Sales ratios. "Bottom dweller" really is not a fair use of words. With any device manufacturer, product is only as good as its dealer support. Get references if need be. RE: maintenance; The asker is talking B&W devices not color. Regardless, get the maintenance. Fewer spikes in copy quality or hardware issues because you'll make that phone call to fix rather than putting up with poor copy quality, etc. for fear of how much it...
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Re: Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

Art Post ·
TimB: Thanx for the comment! I believe you with the top ten in R & D for Spend to Sales ratios, but I don't R & D being conducted for copiers not like Canon, Xerox, KonicaMInolta & Xerox. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. Toshiba's market share over the last ten years in the US has always been at or near the bottom of the pack, thus they are cellar dwellers, bottom feeders, in the US market. You are correct with the MA, they were not asking for...
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Re: Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

EByers ·
Art, I like your general guidance to the initial poster, and I won't grade your writing since this isn't an English class. In regard to this brief post conversation, I think honesty is the best policy with customers and with ourselves. Yes Tim, they probably are in the top ten. However, the customer was asking which is the best. By rankings in the market place, the top seven do not include Toshiba. They fall within the bottom 7% of market share for shipments and the bottom 8.6% for market...
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Re: Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

Art Post ·
thanx for nor grading my English!!! most threads are done at night and I'll admit, I'm much better at selling than writing.
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Re: Unlimited Black and Color Page Maintenance/Supply Plans

Czech ·
Yes, I've seen this from authorized dealers. 6 months later they called the customer and asked for their meter count and sent a bill for $700. More and more I'm seeing copies included in the lease. IMO that's cheeky, especially when a lease buyout is involved. How do you pick that apart? A customer shouldn't have to pay for service not rendered.
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Re: Unlimited Black and Color Page Maintenance/Supply Plans

Art Post ·
There outta be a law for that!
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Re: Unlimited Black and Color Page Maintenance/Supply Plans

VinceMcHugh ·
IKON (Ultimately Ricoh) got sued for this "Flex Lease" Practice, where they just kept rolling things in and rewriting the whole 60 mo lease. Eventually, after the lawyers all made their money, Ricoh Settled the "UnFair Business Practices" Law Suit. Japanese companies typically don't like to go to court. At least that's My $0.02 Vince
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Re: Wording on a Competitors Maintenance Agreement

fisher ·
Not vague to me. They are going to charge a 12 month renewal on the service plan just like some leasing companies do if you don't send in the letter at the end of the lease term. How nice of them! Thanks for this bit of ammo as I just ran into this competitor for the first time recently.
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Re: Wording on a Competitors Maintenance Agreement

Art Post ·
But at the "at current rate", could mean they could charge whatever they want, correct?
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Re: Wording on a Competitors Maintenance Agreement

fisher ·
Pretty much.
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Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
There's a few things that I'm tired of in this industry.  Keep in mind that I had a dealership for 12 years, although not large, we still employed our three partners and at one time had a dozen employees.  I sold my share of the business,...
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Unlimited Black and Color Page Maintenance/Supply Plans

Art Post ·
Recently went up against a company that was offering Unlimited Black and Color pages plans here in NJ. Not sure how they are doing it, has anyone else seen this crop up in their area? Here is there web address, takes while to load....http://www.copysmart.me/m/ checked to see if they were authorized for any manufacturers and came up with nothing.
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Wording on a Competitors Maintenance Agreement

Art Post ·
Apologies for this being so small, however I had to cut and paste. I believe the line that states "at the then-current rate" is really vague right? Kinda means they could charge whatever they want. Thoughts, comments?
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Fleet Maintenance Agreement Cost Per Device

Art Post ·
I've seen this before and would like to know how the rest of us are billing for maintenance supply agreements for copiers.   Here's the scenario:   You have 3 copiers that are the same brand, model number and delivered at the same time...
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Six Reasons Why Copiers Leases Can Cost You More Than You Signed For

Art Post ·
When you signed your last copier lease, did you happen to take the time to read that lease? How about the maintenance agreement? If you're like most lessees, you probably skimmed over the verbiage on the lease and then signed the maintenance agreement without reading the T's & C's. Not reading those T's & C's could lead to some problems in the future, because there are clauses in those agreements that will increase your costs. 1) Maintenance included with the lease: Some leases have...
Blog Post

Best Black & White MFP for 10k/month yeild. Suggestions?

Art Post ·
From time to time I'll see an interesting thread or post on a forum and I'll take the time to give an unbiased opinion based on the questions that are presented.  Below is a thread I found on a forum that really didn't answer the question for the...
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Copier Maintenance Agreements "Are You Hiding the Cheese"?

Art Post ·
This will be the shortest blog of the season for me!!  Last night I posted a topic in the Print4Pay Hotel forums related Maintenance Agreements.    I'm not going to let the cat out of the bag on the open blog, but we've already had...
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Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Cost Per Image, Cost Per Page, Cost Per Copy, Cost Per Print, whatever you call it, it all started with the copier industry. The question above was posed by Greg Walters with a recent thread that was posted on LinkedIn.  I stated the reply...
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Re: Six Reasons Why Copiers Leases Can Cost You More Than You Signed For

Cheryl Goldburg ·
Seriously? Which side are you on? Let's recognize that the dealer never pats for a lease return, it's just baked into the new lease. In this era of low margins, there is no room to offer these things for free. Additionally, there is no reputable dealer that would uplift 25% a year.
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Re: Six Reasons Why Copiers Leases Can Cost You More Than You Signed For

Art Post ·
Cheryl Thanx for the response! I'm on the side of transparency. I want companies to recognize that there are some dealers that, well, they should not be doing business with. Here in the North East we're seeing some down right dirty tactics when it comes to moving product. You're right, no reputable dealer would uplift 25%, however we do have at leas one dealer that I know of that has the kind of uplift. Not sure what you meant here, can you clarify? "Let's recognize that the dealer never...
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Re: Six Reasons Why Copiers Leases Can Cost You More Than You Signed For

Old Glory ·
I didn't understand Cheryl's response either. Another important question is the length of the automatic renewal. At least the "renews for like term" seem to have gone away but I still see some 12 month renewals. In my opinion, a customer should never agree to Automatic Renewal Terms of more than 3 months with the 30 day renewal being the obvious best choice. For me, it's more about the integrity of the leasing company or the dealer pushing that particular lease company. Nobody plans on going...
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Re: Six Reasons Why Copiers Leases Can Cost You More Than You Signed For

Art Post ·
take a loot at the attached file about Leasing
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Re: Six Reasons Why Copiers Leases Can Cost You More Than You Signed For

Art Post ·
I received the below message via email yesterday. It's from Kevin Clune (President of Clune & Company LLC). I've known Kevin for years and appreciate his insight with leasing. Art, we haven’t talked in years but I still follow p4p. I liked your article about copier leasing but I thought I’d show you the attached marketing piece which shines a spotlight on some of the leasing industry’s most effective/injurious revenue enhancers. It’s a constantly evolving landscape as our industry is...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

NC_ACC ·
Art, We build in as much escalation as we can. Sometimes up to 15% on bundled lease/service...sometimes 5% on service only. On occcasion, none at all (primarily true produciton print accounts).
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

txeagle24 ·
Ours escalate annually at 15% of the service payment. While I understand the need for this type of clause to hedge against cost increases from the manufacturers, gas prices and the like, think it has gotten out of hand. If a clause states that service may increase by up to 15% per year, that shouldn't mean "regardless of what the profitability is on your contract, we are going to increase it by 15% every year." My feeling is that every contract above a certain monthly payment (let's use...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

NC_ACC ·
24, While I agree with some of your comments, most of them are broad stroked ideas that in my opionion, would eventually lead to a failed business. And, good luck with having a conversation with all of your customers informing them that you need 45 pts(or whatever you think you need to survive) of profitability and that if thier account does not lend that percentage, you'll increase their expendature...whenever. Just an opinion.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

txeagle24 ·
I think having a business conversation with a customer or prospective customer is a better way of going about things than burying a clause in a contract, hoping they don't notice it & then fielding phone calls & emails from upset customers every year when their costs unexpectedly increase. The younger generation of decision-makers are looking for business partners, not vendors, & partnerships are a two way street. Some buyers may not appreciate this way of thinking, but I would...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
Personally, I would rather be upfront with the customer (in many cases I am), rather than "hiding the cheese". I will admit that there are many occasions where I do not address the escalating cost of the service agreement, if it is brought up, I will then address it. I just see our industry as a whole "hiding the cheese" in many places. I will strive to tell more clients about the escalating increase, because I don't want to have a irate customer call me after the first year has expired.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
tx, you are contrarian, and there's nothing wrong with that!!
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

NC_ACC ·
24, All great points. Good selling.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Old Glory ·
Here's a different take and I'm going to use leasing to illustrate my point. 30 years ago the rate factor we used to calculate a monthly payment represented the leases's "true cost". Then our industry demanded lower rate factors without any concern for the terms of the contract. Over time, lower rate factors were offset by alternative forms of revenue for the leasing company...evergreen clauses, exaggerated property tax bills, forced insurance, etc. and the list continues to climb with the...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
here, here
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
But now even, those "low" rate factors are now bumped to the sales person. Thus, the customer gets no advantage.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

txeagle24 ·
Originally Posted by Old Glory: Give me 20% lower cpc's 1st year with the intent of making it up over the next 5 years and we could rule the world. Unfortunately, what would have been a great idea before the advent of escalations, is now impossible because the powers that be have embraced the clause and have already made it an integral part of their profit structure. The same goes for the "points" or "ticks" dealers add on to the rates they receive from their leasing partners. At a certain...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

fisher ·
We have the clause in the contract in bold on the first page. Always have. We have rarely raised any contracts though. Now we find customers with 8-10+ year old equipment where today they are still paying the same cpc as they were on day one. Our old software never had a means to efficiently track it. Our new software lets us very precisely monitor and manage these things. We have begun increasing the contracts on the oldest garbage we have in the field. Believe it or not we are now getting...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

jredmon ·
Our dealership increases the service portion of an agreement 12% per year or if we lock in the rate (up to 5 years on a new machine) then we take a 5% hit on the machine and a 3% hit on the maintenance agreement. I do not see a problem with a 4-6% increase per year ...that is easy to explain but 12% kills us on getting new business.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
Jredmon: got it, are you having problems with existing accounts also when they are close to end of term?
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

jredmon ·
For a long time we did not increase an agreement and we had a lot of old equipment that was difficult to upgrade due to the low cost but on the other hand as we implemented the 12% increases we had issues with the current customer feeling that we had taken advantage of them....Mainly due to the verbage on the contract that says "we may increase the agreement up to 12%", well we definately did the increase and at the 12% rate. Customer was hoping that they would not see an increase but if...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

txeagle24 ·
Originally Posted by jredmon: For a long time we did not increase an agreement and we had a lot of old equipment that was difficult to upgrade due to the low cost but on the other hand as we implemented the 12% increases we had issues with the current customer feeling that we had taken advantage of them....Mainly due to the verbage on the contract that says "we may increase the agreement up to 12%", well we definately did the increase and at the 12% rate. Customer was hoping that they would...
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

jredmon ·
True...Very True....Much easier to sell and get the customer's buyin to a 4-6% increase.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

txeagle24 ·
True, but even then a client whose contract is performing within an acceptable range shouldn't be subject to an increase & I'm sure would appreciate being notified I advance that will not face an escalation in applicable years.
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Re: Escalating Maintenance Agreements

Art Post ·
I'm told that he sales department makes zero profit, when in fact, if it were not for salespeople gaining net new, and keeping new accounts, there would be no service revenue.
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