Tagged With "billing"

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Re: The Death of the Cost Per Page Billing Model

BCarroll ·
Hi Art The Pagewide service model is the one we use for our Canon ImagePROGRAF plotters. Based upon customer's needs, we quote an annual contract for service. This contract, like the original 1- year warranty from Canon, excludes user- replaceable items (ink, paper, printhead(s), and maintanence cartridge). If the system includes a scanner, we account for that in the quoted price. So essentially, we will repair / replace any item not user-replaceable. Canon offers the same "service" contract...
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Re: The Death of the Cost Per Page Billing Model

Art Post ·
Thanx for this. Thus the maintenance agreement for the ImagePrograf and provides a flat fee with unlimited prints, right? The user would then also pay for any consumables, do I have this right?
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Wallingford ·
What came next with some dealers in the Oz market, was a guarantee that the client's copy costs would not rise annually, above a maximum of 10% which most clients would agree to. Or that it would only rise by the CPI, which these days is a joke of a deal, as it is only around 2%. But some now guarantee to hold the pricing for the term of the rental agreement, which at 5 years is just down right stupid.This has now become a lot more prevalent, as weak salesmen sell (if you can call it...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Wallingford Thanx for this! From your thread I can tell we all have most of the same issues. Anyone else care to help with their first experience with CPC?
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

txeagle24 ·
I've only been around 9 years, but when I first started, we were selling the old Ricoh AP3800CMF (A3 color printer w/ a scanner kit attached to make it an MFP) since the 1224c/1232c was such a bust. In our Service Agreements, black toner was included in the CPP, but color toner was billable. When trying to get those customers to upgrade to the 2238c, I would create a cost per page analysis (since toner was included in our CPP for the 2238c) and had several furious customers who thought we...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

John Saramak ·
I remember it well and at ComDoc, in the early 80's we sometimes put the offer out there without it being a formal price plan. I think the customer realized that a lot of the toner they purchased and stocked was useless at end of the machines life. It was like a primer with a customer who had that and TCO on their mind, it was a way to close them. Equally, I remember taking it one step further in the early 90's with copy management - the first all inclusive (hardware, service, supplies)...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Old Glory ·
I remember a plan that didn't really take hold but it was a plan like the one John talked about and all accessories were proposed in the form of copies...you want a finisher, just commit to 10,000 additional copies per month. The CPC rate had an equipment portion attached to it so more clicks funded more equipment. If the CPC was normal plus .003, 10,000 clicks added $30/month which would fund $1,500 additional. Some customers that weren't willing to pay $1,500 would agree to 10,000 more...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Wow! These are some awesome stories, I'm sure there are many more out there from some of our veterans, would love to read more.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

VinceMcHugh ·
Art, Is Ricoh just going to retire @Remote, or will they be replacing it with something, possibly a third party vendor like Printfleet? Thanks, Vince
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
What was stated to me was that their facilities manager product would be able to collect the tiered color billing and then report on it. All I heard was that @remote was going away. I was so surprised by the aspect of these new devices having the tiered that I did not even bother to ask about a replacement for @remote
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
I'm not sure about your source, but it's already in the Ricoh units, we found this about 4 months ago in the mpc305, the issue is getting it out of the system automatically for billing purposes. We use purpose software which can automatically cope with tiered billing.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
Calums: Thanx for this, I see you're in the UK and the info I related to was that the tiered info came from a document there. My source was from Print Audit, but I wanted to make sure this was the case. We were talking about the latest upgrades to PA, and one of them was that their facility manager software is capable of taking those tiered color levels and putting them in a bucket so they could be billed. When you mention purpose software, what are you referring to? Thanx for the...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Jrlz ·
I wonder if direct will not be offering this becuase their billing system can not support tiered pricing?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
Purpose software is supplied by common sense that supply software to the copier industry for managing and billing our industry.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
Purpose software is supplied by common sense that supply software to the copier industry for managing and billing our industry.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Nasher ·
hi calums could you give more info on the tier settings for mpc305 i have looked in the manuale but cant see any info on it many thanks
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

GIntel ·
Any update on this (in the US)?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
I've heard not that much except for something I heard is that since @ remote is going away Ricoh themselves does not have a program to extrapolate the billing. Again just something I hear, however Print Audits facility manager will do this as I understand.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
So we have an aficio 3003 in the office at Print Audit and we are tracking 3 levels of metering from it. Does anyone have ant technical info on the 3003?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

txeagle24 ·
Apparently, Ricoh Solutions guys aren't aware of this. I asked one of them, and he said there is an SP mode that has been around for generations that runs a report on clicks @ 3 different levels of coverage but that it's not for billing purposes.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
the 3 tier is mentined on a couple of European brochures from Ricoh. If I can find a link I will share it
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

GIntel ·
Hey Guys, Few more questions. Anyone have any details on if the color CPC tiers are dealer-editable or pre-set and what the setting are? Similarly, are the CPCs set or dealer-editable? How is the coverage calculated, through device firmware or print audit or both? What devices is this available for?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
Originally Posted by Paul Giorgi: So we have an aficio 3003 in the office at Print Audit and we are tracking 3 levels of metering from it. Does anyone have ant technical info on the 3003? Paul: Are you looking for the service manual?? Art
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
O.K. I have found some information for you . Ricoh has introduced the 3 billing level since the MPC 2051 meaning all models after this introduction has these features ( MPC3001 .......) . Print Audit Facilities Manager can now detect and pick up these assignable threshold counters. Ricoh Dealer that are Premier Members or are using Facilities Manager can now compete with Xeorx and Kyocera promoting this type of billing. I have a brief set up how to for configuring the thresholds on Ricoh...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

txeagle24 ·
Paul: Do you have any marketing literature on this? This could be big for Ricoh Dealers and a large area of opportunity for Print Audit to sign up dealers that are using Print Fleet, FM Audit or other DCAs.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Old Glory ·
Paul, Has anyone told you lately how great it is to have you with us on this site As a Print Audit Premier Dealer, you can bet that we will be in contact VERY SOON.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
Be aware on this, we have been using this for over a year and the pit falls are. The percentage coverage is based on overall coverage not per toner, the biggest thing is the cost you offer it at, if 30% is in 0-5, 30% in the 6-10 and the 60% is above. What we have found is that the 60% and above is not just 11% coverage but 20-30%, so your copy cost doesnt cover this cost and you could lose money on the high end copy cost. The two lower tiers make you money but your margins are lower as 60%...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
I have to respond to a municipal gov't RFP next week for 10 copiers and for the first time I am seeing a request to propose 3 Tier colour CPC pricing. Less than 0.5% colour, 0.5 - 7.5% and 7.5% plus. Ricoh Direct, Xerox Direct and a local Kyocera dealer are likely to respond. It is probably fair to assume that 0.5% colour will be the same cpc as black and 0.5% - 7.5% plus will all be charged the same rate. I calculate that those vendors who can offer 3 Tier cpc will only have to invoice...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
With Xerox, was it just on the solid ink stick products that they offered 3 Tier pricing or does this apply to their toner based MFPs as well? Thanks,
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
All great questions. I have not see any quotes from Ricoh direct or dealers offering tiered color rates. Does not mean it's not out there, maybe just not in my next of the woods. We do not offer it. "It is probably fair to assume that 0.5% colour will be the same cpc as black and 0.5% - 7.5% plus will all be charged the same rate." Black is a color right? Curious to see how that works also. If all color (including black) is lumped into one barrel, and the cost for .5 is .02 then that would...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
Black cpc is a seperate meter for this RFP. Black is not colour in this RFP. Thanks,
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

jswinberlin ·
It's funny, I came here with the purpose of seeing how to overcome this when competing with vendors/manufacturers who offer this. We don't want to go down this road and I'd be interested in some ways of overcoming this objection. When meeting with a customer today I told them that tiered billing hasn't taken off and in my opinion it really wasn't worth it. There response was, "why" to which I stated that we felt it was majoring in the minors and it was better to give the best possible color...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
Not all copier vendors can offer 3 Tier pricing. Besides the built in technology, a significant investment must be made in the back end accounting system to handle these extra line items on the invoice. Furthermore, via service code it is possible to vary what that the toner coverage thresholds are making the entire process rather arbitrary and very hard to certify. I would suggest that you be a little cautious if the successful vendor asks you to install proprietary software on your network...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
I would tell the client if all you are going to do is print a small color logo on letterhead. Then tiered billing is the way to go. Anything else would mean that you are relying on the software to interpret the coverage and which tier that coverage falls into. Thus, with tiered color you could never have a predictable expense. We can give you that with our "all in" color billing model. You pay one price for color not matter what the coverage is.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Old Glory ·
Why limit yourself to the business model outlined by the manufacturers? I don't know enough about the variables available to the dealer when setting this up but tell me if this could be done... What's the selling point of tiered billing? It is, "why should you pay $0.05-$0.08 for a page that has no color on it but a blue email address?" That's the rub. Why not set tier one at the lowest threshhold possible and bill it at the black rate. All others at the full color rate. Some customers might...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
It is important to note to the customer that the lowest Tier color pricing is really only applicable for when people print a document and are not aware that there might be a small amount of color in it. This is what I call unintended color printing. Most people plan to print in color when they need it (assuming the print driver is set to black by default) and must proactively choose color. This is what I call intended color printing. Unintended color printing will never come close to...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
The Complexity of CPP and 3 tier go our the window when you start offering your services per user per month.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
In the end, I got the deal by a wide margin pitching a single tier vs 3 tier pricing. I can only guess that the Kyocera dealer was over confident in the margins he thought that he could get. I had to give away the hardware on a publicly posted tender with a low, low cpc. Definitely, the customer was the big winner, not me.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Kitz ·
I know this topic is still out there, we just lost a deal to Kyocera and the 3 tier pricing model, we have FMAudit as our MPS monitoring software, any new info on offering this with Ricoh product? Thanks
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
I've heard it can be done with our Ricoh devices. Can anyone else help with this?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Old Glory ·
I wanted to resurrect this old thread to see if there are any Ricoh Dealers out there making use of the tiered level coverage area data that the Ricoh color devices now provide. We know that Xerox and Kyocera have had this capability longer than Ricoh but I'm not seeing it being utilized by anyone. Anyone running across it in their neck of the woods? If you are a Ricoh Dealer utilizing this, I would like to find out more about the when, where's and hows. I would also like to know what the...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
Old Glory: We're not doing anything with it, seems we are ultra conservative when it comes to cpc
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

txeagle24 ·
I think it's something dealers are secretly scared of marketing & offering. They are afraid that it will result in lost revenue in margins, & they may be right. There are a lot of trends (no-minimum contracts, rules-based printing to reduce color volume, educated buyers, among others) in the industry right now that are putting the easy margins at risk. This is one of those topics that the few who figure out how to correctly position it as a differentiator will use to take their...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
txeagle "Amen"
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Re: Five Reasons Why Copier Dealers Need to Implement Their Own Flat Rate Program

Larry Kirsch ·
Have been employing one rate for many years. Very helpful.
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