Tagged With "Mita"

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Re: This Week in the Copier/Office Equipment Industry 10 Years Ago Fourth Week of January 2005

richj ·
I am out of the office on annual leave until the 26th Jan. In my absence please contact 01983 406522. Thank you
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Monte ·
It has been that way for years in my area. If Canon enters the deal all profit is gone.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Docutrend ·
Usually they sell at dealer cost less all incentives on accounts where they are the incumbent.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Had a deal recently that we were the incumbent and CSA came in and placed the exact same machine as we tried. Customer gave us the quote and our true cost was around 14,000 or 15,000 and they sold it to them around $9,000.00. Anytime CSA is in a deal there is a very small chance of winning. The only thing we have going for us is their service is very lousy so after the lost sale we usually pick up a service agreement at some point. Ricoh has been good about enforcing the rules of engagement...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

TML ·
CSA operates under a lawless abandon. Their number one goal is to move boxes even at a loss. While they didn't lose as much this past year, they still didn't turn a profit for CUSA (canon USA) and no one at the top seemed to care. Having met some of the top tier dealers in the northeast, the sore in every single independent dealers side is canon solutions america / canon business solutions. We all know competition is out there, but to have to explain why us as a canon independent dealer is a...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Art Post ·
Originally Posted by TML: CSA operates under a lawless abandon. Their number one goal is to move boxes even at a loss. While they didn't lose as much this past year, they still didn't turn a profit for CUSA (canon USA) and no one at the top seemed to care. Having met some of the top tier dealers in the northeast, the sore in every single independent dealers side is canon solutions america / canon business solutions. We all know competition is out there, but to have to explain why us as a...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Some things don't change... Rules of engagement lol multiple lines dare best protection for independents...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

NC_ACC ·
I was employeed by CBS (now CSA). I moved my family back to the east coast after working for 6 years in the Portland OR area for CBS as a production print specialist. Perhaps things have changed since I left CBS 2 years ago to come back to a Canon dealer... I was beaten and battered (related to my cost) when I was at CBS by all 5 local dealers. I now manage a sales team for a Canon dealer. We have never lost to CSA in the 3 years that I've in this position. In fact, I had a promo running for...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

NC_ACC ·
...friends don't let friends lose to CSA
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Christi ·
Art, Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mriles ·
If you are referring to Canon Solutions America (former Oce), then yes Canon has been protecting their investment since day 1!
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Originally Posted by Christi: Art, Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product. I too have seen personally very high...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

txeagle24 ·
We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard to find) ways around Rules of Engagement. One example I will use is a former customer I had that had all of their local Ricoh MFP placements with me but had a few old units from Xerox locally & several Ricoh units in a different market from RBS. The customer was looking to upgrade a Ricoh machine that I had placed a few years earlier. Ricoh went in and gave them pricing that was 25% lower than I could offer, & when we brought up...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Frankly in my experiences the vendor (oem) will try to obtain the business , then negotiate with the dealer if they are unsuccessful going direct. Sounds like the game plan they employ.. Suggest working those things out prior to channel conflict. Long range consequence tends to upset customer who then selects another manufacturer altogether. Best wishes to those who encounter these circumstances... Try settling before not after..
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Old Glory ·
We have been very pleased with Ricoh's commitment to the ROE. We even got full credit for a sale that RBS made after we brought the discretion to Ricoh's attention.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Czech ·
Where I work its the opposite. Canon and Canon dealers have no rules of engagement. However, dealers are typically 20% less than Canon direct.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Have to remind customer of your long term involvement vs. price. Usually the differentiator...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Rogue ·
Originally Posted by Art Post: Whoa there Art.... I've been with Canon (CSA) for 20 years. We have thousands of well satisfied customers. Not everyone everywhere is going to be happy but, to the chagrin of our competitors, most are. If they aren't, they will leave. You know it and I know it. We have ROE's that are rigidly enforced where I do business, we are not out to buy the business and the competition from Canon's own dealers often force prices to rock bottom margins. You've been at this...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
I call complete bull **** on that. I am dealing with a customer right now whose quote from csa is 20% less than we can buy it for with all programs etc. the directs are blaming the dealers for running the industry into the ground? That's hilarious And I've heard that from Ricoh direct as well. Let's not forget who decided to bring out the A4 machines and drive the hardware revenues down to nothing and then start doing service at cost so the factory could continue to run. Those branches are...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mnchstr ·
I am dealing with this right now, my DBM is looking into it but I'm skeptical having lost two previous accounts to Ricoh Direct. One was a school district we had seven mfp's in Ricoh had one billable obsolete AF 650 so "technically" we weren't the incumbent. Ricoh has a lot of ways to get around their rules. Ricoh "says" the dealer cost is the same as direct but we see them sell at our cost all the time. Originally Posted by txeagle24: We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Need to resort to good old salesmanship. Dealer service and personnel benefits. Best wishes..
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
It's difficult to sell dealer service and benefits when your pricing is 30% higher. That's a lot of value to add and if anyone thinks they can truly do that much value on a regular basis, I want them on my team.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
30% very big difference. Best wishes.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
That's about all I can tell my reps is good luck. Your not going to beat the directs on price. If you can sell the value of a dealer/customer relationship that's the best bet. My post may have sounded a little Blount/direct towards you which wasn't intended. I just get fed up when I see my reps bring quotes back that we can't even touch without losing money.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Price , as an objection has always been challenging. I use to spread difference over 5 yrs then load up on advantages which I could offer. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. You seem to be seasoned at this. If significant enough I brought DSM from Mfgr. That helped me get customers attn.. Usually mentioned to prospect longevity of rep from dealer vs. transition of direct contact if that helps. Let me know how you make out.. Again best wishes. What state are you in?
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mnchstr ·
Just got off the phone with my DBM and OF COURSE Ricoh has one machine in the county system so I can't keep them out if the board wants to consolidate under one vendor. I'm thinking my days as a sole source RFG dealer are over. I could add Sharp, they call me every now and then but EVERYONE around here sells Sharp. Looked at Kyocera once but they wanted $65k buy in. Suggestions?
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mnchstr ·
We're in Illinois. I have brought in my DSM/DBM and a Ricoh Solutions specialist when necessary didn't help in the last instance. When we see Xerox selling off the state contract they usually sell at below our US Communities cost. This is a broke ass state and price is often the only "value" they care about.Originally Posted by Larry Kirsch: Price , as an objection has always been challenging. I use to spread difference over 5 yrs then load up on advantages which I could offer. Sometimes it...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

txeagle24 ·
I would add a solid A4 lineup from Lexmark or Samsung. They're aggressively priced, & Ricoh would likely still consider you a single source dealer. A3 placements are on the decline, & A4 is the only growing segment, plus the aftermarket revenues and profits are higher.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Sounds good. Years ago I was br. Mgr in loop for Savin.. Also had sharp/ Panasonic dealership nyc.. Business has changed but appears to be more lucrative nowadays . Kyocera may play out as good second line... Nice warranties for dealers.. Stay with it.. Where in Ill. Are you??
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Larry I am in NC. Have been doing this about 10 years. It's all I've done since college. I love the industry, for the most part, and really am at a point I couldn't afford to leave it behind. We are a family dealer so running the company has always been my goal so I've neve freaky wanted to leave either. For the ones that are single source RFG, we use to be in the same boat. We added Samsung in 2009 so we have seen tej good and the really bad of SAMSUNG. We brought on Kyocera for a short...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
All sounds good. Bumped into Keith Allison last week. Is he in your area?? Anyhow sounds like you guys are well diversified . Re the tough prospect !! Perhaps an offer of a back up used copier could counter Ricoh 30% lower cost ? Try almost anything to get prospect on your side. Then next year inc price?? Maybe?? Lol
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Yes Keith has a branch in our area but we don't run into them that much. Yes we stuck it out with Ricoh for as long as we could. We really took a hard look at the dealer/manufacturer relationship when the ikon merger happened and we saw pricing in our area that was worse than we see now. What broke the camels back was when we asked for support from Ricoh to gain some of the canon accounts that we had engaged and Ricoh told us point blank to walk away from the deals because we would never win...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Sounds like you are on a roll. Keep up the good work...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Art Post ·
mnchstr How about Muratec, they now have the A3 KonicaMInolta's also
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Unfamiliar with that group...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

TML ·
This has been a great thread so far! We're a mid size dealer in central pa and have most of the directs knocking around in our area. TABS, KMBS, RBS, CSA, Xerox and now Global just bought a small dealership. In addition we have quite a few other Indy dealers like us. I whole heartedly agree with what some one said before about selling the value of your company, service and the relationships. I've also told customers point blank I cannot compete with the directs price so if that's all that...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
A lot of focus , dedication, and hard work always is helpful. A little luck also doesn't hurt. Best wishes.
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Re: Top Twenty Old Copier Manufacturers that FADED Away!

MT Belly ·
Well done! I joined this forum because of this post! If I ever come across an old e-stat copier I swear I'm going to try to restore it!
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Re: Top Twenty Old Copier Manufacturers that FADED Away!

MT Belly ·
Nothing was "reliable" back then! Such a funky era of technology thinking back on it all. There were so many different physical configurations of copy machines back then. Each was a marvel of engineering chaos. I remember it well since the company that first hired me would work on anything they could get their hands on. I worked on plenty of those SCMs and Saxons when I first started out. They both went from liquid to dry toner technology before their demise. Saxon put their name on the...
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Mita Copier TV Ads

Art Post ·
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This Week in the Copier Industry 15 Years Ago, The Second Week of February 2003

Art Post ·
Interesting threads from 15 years ago. Imagistics (anyone remember them), Panasonic, Mita (now Kyocera), ah does it bring back those memories. Speaking of memories, does anyone remember when Sharp was King of the copier industry? It was back in the mid to late eighties. When I was selling Minolta copiers for a dealer in the early eighties whenever a client asked about a Ricoh device, we responded with "what's a Ricoh"? Enjoy the threads from 15 years ago! Toshiba Info 2/11/036:09 PM From:...
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This Week in the Copier/Office Equipment Industry 10 Years Ago (1st Week of November)

Art Post ·
Ten Years ago this week.............After 26 years, and at a distance from Earth of over 8 billion miles, Voyager 1 exits the solar system. It is expected to keep on transmitting into the 2020s . [47] [48]   Enjoy these threads from the Print4Pay Hotel forums 10 year ago!   I Get To Change Jobs! November 8, 2003 1:27 PM Topic by Graham Well all, it looks like I will be making a Job Change on December 1st. My company has been sold to our chief competitor.I will be still selling...
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Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Art Post ·
Heard from a friend who is a Canon dealer.  That dealer states CBS is dumping machines to his existing base and selling in most cases for 20% less than his cost!!    Also went on to state that CBS and Canon Dealers have no "Rule of...
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My Top Ten Copy Machines of All Time #3

Art Post ·
Think about this,  a copy machine that can copy up to A3 (up to 11x17), and only onto A4 size (letter or legal).  You don't see that feature with todays digital copiers.  I for one believe many of todays copier manufacturers are missing...
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kyocera_wide%20format.pdf

Art Post ·
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CLC4000Webvpc

Art Post ·
CLC4000Webvpc
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00549778001193677278

Art Post ·
00549778001193677278
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