Tagged With "Direct Channel"

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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Originally Posted by Christi: Art, Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product. I too have seen personally very high...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

txeagle24 ·
We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard to find) ways around Rules of Engagement. One example I will use is a former customer I had that had all of their local Ricoh MFP placements with me but had a few old units from Xerox locally & several Ricoh units in a different market from RBS. The customer was looking to upgrade a Ricoh machine that I had placed a few years earlier. Ricoh went in and gave them pricing that was 25% lower than I could offer, & when we brought up...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Old Glory ·
We have been very pleased with Ricoh's commitment to the ROE. We even got full credit for a sale that RBS made after we brought the discretion to Ricoh's attention.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Czech ·
Where I work its the opposite. Canon and Canon dealers have no rules of engagement. However, dealers are typically 20% less than Canon direct.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Have to remind customer of your long term involvement vs. price. Usually the differentiator...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Rogue ·
Originally Posted by Art Post: Whoa there Art.... I've been with Canon (CSA) for 20 years. We have thousands of well satisfied customers. Not everyone everywhere is going to be happy but, to the chagrin of our competitors, most are. If they aren't, they will leave. You know it and I know it. We have ROE's that are rigidly enforced where I do business, we are not out to buy the business and the competition from Canon's own dealers often force prices to rock bottom margins. You've been at this...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
I call complete bull **** on that. I am dealing with a customer right now whose quote from csa is 20% less than we can buy it for with all programs etc. the directs are blaming the dealers for running the industry into the ground? That's hilarious And I've heard that from Ricoh direct as well. Let's not forget who decided to bring out the A4 machines and drive the hardware revenues down to nothing and then start doing service at cost so the factory could continue to run. Those branches are...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mnchstr ·
I am dealing with this right now, my DBM is looking into it but I'm skeptical having lost two previous accounts to Ricoh Direct. One was a school district we had seven mfp's in Ricoh had one billable obsolete AF 650 so "technically" we weren't the incumbent. Ricoh has a lot of ways to get around their rules. Ricoh "says" the dealer cost is the same as direct but we see them sell at our cost all the time. Originally Posted by txeagle24: We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Need to resort to good old salesmanship. Dealer service and personnel benefits. Best wishes..
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
It's difficult to sell dealer service and benefits when your pricing is 30% higher. That's a lot of value to add and if anyone thinks they can truly do that much value on a regular basis, I want them on my team.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
30% very big difference. Best wishes.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
That's about all I can tell my reps is good luck. Your not going to beat the directs on price. If you can sell the value of a dealer/customer relationship that's the best bet. My post may have sounded a little Blount/direct towards you which wasn't intended. I just get fed up when I see my reps bring quotes back that we can't even touch without losing money.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Price , as an objection has always been challenging. I use to spread difference over 5 yrs then load up on advantages which I could offer. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. You seem to be seasoned at this. If significant enough I brought DSM from Mfgr. That helped me get customers attn.. Usually mentioned to prospect longevity of rep from dealer vs. transition of direct contact if that helps. Let me know how you make out.. Again best wishes. What state are you in?
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mnchstr ·
Just got off the phone with my DBM and OF COURSE Ricoh has one machine in the county system so I can't keep them out if the board wants to consolidate under one vendor. I'm thinking my days as a sole source RFG dealer are over. I could add Sharp, they call me every now and then but EVERYONE around here sells Sharp. Looked at Kyocera once but they wanted $65k buy in. Suggestions?
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

mnchstr ·
We're in Illinois. I have brought in my DSM/DBM and a Ricoh Solutions specialist when necessary didn't help in the last instance. When we see Xerox selling off the state contract they usually sell at below our US Communities cost. This is a broke ass state and price is often the only "value" they care about.Originally Posted by Larry Kirsch: Price , as an objection has always been challenging. I use to spread difference over 5 yrs then load up on advantages which I could offer. Sometimes it...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

txeagle24 ·
I would add a solid A4 lineup from Lexmark or Samsung. They're aggressively priced, & Ricoh would likely still consider you a single source dealer. A3 placements are on the decline, & A4 is the only growing segment, plus the aftermarket revenues and profits are higher.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Sounds good. Years ago I was br. Mgr in loop for Savin.. Also had sharp/ Panasonic dealership nyc.. Business has changed but appears to be more lucrative nowadays . Kyocera may play out as good second line... Nice warranties for dealers.. Stay with it.. Where in Ill. Are you??
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Larry I am in NC. Have been doing this about 10 years. It's all I've done since college. I love the industry, for the most part, and really am at a point I couldn't afford to leave it behind. We are a family dealer so running the company has always been my goal so I've neve freaky wanted to leave either. For the ones that are single source RFG, we use to be in the same boat. We added Samsung in 2009 so we have seen tej good and the really bad of SAMSUNG. We brought on Kyocera for a short...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
All sounds good. Bumped into Keith Allison last week. Is he in your area?? Anyhow sounds like you guys are well diversified . Re the tough prospect !! Perhaps an offer of a back up used copier could counter Ricoh 30% lower cost ? Try almost anything to get prospect on your side. Then next year inc price?? Maybe?? Lol
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Jason H ·
Yes Keith has a branch in our area but we don't run into them that much. Yes we stuck it out with Ricoh for as long as we could. We really took a hard look at the dealer/manufacturer relationship when the ikon merger happened and we saw pricing in our area that was worse than we see now. What broke the camels back was when we asked for support from Ricoh to gain some of the canon accounts that we had engaged and Ricoh told us point blank to walk away from the deals because we would never win...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Sounds like you are on a roll. Keep up the good work...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Art Post ·
mnchstr How about Muratec, they now have the A3 KonicaMInolta's also
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
Unfamiliar with that group...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

TML ·
This has been a great thread so far! We're a mid size dealer in central pa and have most of the directs knocking around in our area. TABS, KMBS, RBS, CSA, Xerox and now Global just bought a small dealership. In addition we have quite a few other Indy dealers like us. I whole heartedly agree with what some one said before about selling the value of your company, service and the relationships. I've also told customers point blank I cannot compete with the directs price so if that's all that...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Larry Kirsch ·
A lot of focus , dedication, and hard work always is helpful. A little luck also doesn't hurt. Best wishes.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

VinceMcHugh ·
Art, Is Ricoh just going to retire @Remote, or will they be replacing it with something, possibly a third party vendor like Printfleet? Thanks, Vince
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
What was stated to me was that their facilities manager product would be able to collect the tiered color billing and then report on it. All I heard was that @remote was going away. I was so surprised by the aspect of these new devices having the tiered that I did not even bother to ask about a replacement for @remote
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
I'm not sure about your source, but it's already in the Ricoh units, we found this about 4 months ago in the mpc305, the issue is getting it out of the system automatically for billing purposes. We use purpose software which can automatically cope with tiered billing.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
Calums: Thanx for this, I see you're in the UK and the info I related to was that the tiered info came from a document there. My source was from Print Audit, but I wanted to make sure this was the case. We were talking about the latest upgrades to PA, and one of them was that their facility manager software is capable of taking those tiered color levels and putting them in a bucket so they could be billed. When you mention purpose software, what are you referring to? Thanx for the...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Jrlz ·
I wonder if direct will not be offering this becuase their billing system can not support tiered pricing?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
Purpose software is supplied by common sense that supply software to the copier industry for managing and billing our industry.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
Purpose software is supplied by common sense that supply software to the copier industry for managing and billing our industry.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Nasher ·
hi calums could you give more info on the tier settings for mpc305 i have looked in the manuale but cant see any info on it many thanks
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

GIntel ·
Any update on this (in the US)?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
I've heard not that much except for something I heard is that since @ remote is going away Ricoh themselves does not have a program to extrapolate the billing. Again just something I hear, however Print Audits facility manager will do this as I understand.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
So we have an aficio 3003 in the office at Print Audit and we are tracking 3 levels of metering from it. Does anyone have ant technical info on the 3003?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

txeagle24 ·
Apparently, Ricoh Solutions guys aren't aware of this. I asked one of them, and he said there is an SP mode that has been around for generations that runs a report on clicks @ 3 different levels of coverage but that it's not for billing purposes.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
the 3 tier is mentined on a couple of European brochures from Ricoh. If I can find a link I will share it
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

GIntel ·
Hey Guys, Few more questions. Anyone have any details on if the color CPC tiers are dealer-editable or pre-set and what the setting are? Similarly, are the CPCs set or dealer-editable? How is the coverage calculated, through device firmware or print audit or both? What devices is this available for?
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
Originally Posted by Paul Giorgi: So we have an aficio 3003 in the office at Print Audit and we are tracking 3 levels of metering from it. Does anyone have ant technical info on the 3003? Paul: Are you looking for the service manual?? Art
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Paul Giorgi ·
O.K. I have found some information for you . Ricoh has introduced the 3 billing level since the MPC 2051 meaning all models after this introduction has these features ( MPC3001 .......) . Print Audit Facilities Manager can now detect and pick up these assignable threshold counters. Ricoh Dealer that are Premier Members or are using Facilities Manager can now compete with Xeorx and Kyocera promoting this type of billing. I have a brief set up how to for configuring the thresholds on Ricoh...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

txeagle24 ·
Paul: Do you have any marketing literature on this? This could be big for Ricoh Dealers and a large area of opportunity for Print Audit to sign up dealers that are using Print Fleet, FM Audit or other DCAs.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Old Glory ·
Paul, Has anyone told you lately how great it is to have you with us on this site As a Print Audit Premier Dealer, you can bet that we will be in contact VERY SOON.
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Calums ·
Be aware on this, we have been using this for over a year and the pit falls are. The percentage coverage is based on overall coverage not per toner, the biggest thing is the cost you offer it at, if 30% is in 0-5, 30% in the 6-10 and the 60% is above. What we have found is that the 60% and above is not just 11% coverage but 20-30%, so your copy cost doesnt cover this cost and you could lose money on the high end copy cost. The two lower tiers make you money but your margins are lower as 60%...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
I have to respond to a municipal gov't RFP next week for 10 copiers and for the first time I am seeing a request to propose 3 Tier colour CPC pricing. Less than 0.5% colour, 0.5 - 7.5% and 7.5% plus. Ricoh Direct, Xerox Direct and a local Kyocera dealer are likely to respond. It is probably fair to assume that 0.5% colour will be the same cpc as black and 0.5% - 7.5% plus will all be charged the same rate. I calculate that those vendors who can offer 3 Tier cpc will only have to invoice...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
With Xerox, was it just on the solid ink stick products that they offered 3 Tier pricing or does this apply to their toner based MFPs as well? Thanks,
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

Art Post ·
All great questions. I have not see any quotes from Ricoh direct or dealers offering tiered color rates. Does not mean it's not out there, maybe just not in my next of the woods. We do not offer it. "It is probably fair to assume that 0.5% colour will be the same cpc as black and 0.5% - 7.5% plus will all be charged the same rate." Black is a color right? Curious to see how that works also. If all color (including black) is lumped into one barrel, and the cost for .5 is .02 then that would...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
Black cpc is a seperate meter for this RFP. Black is not colour in this RFP. Thanks,
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

jswinberlin ·
It's funny, I came here with the purpose of seeing how to overcome this when competing with vendors/manufacturers who offer this. We don't want to go down this road and I'd be interested in some ways of overcoming this objection. When meeting with a customer today I told them that tiered billing hasn't taken off and in my opinion it really wasn't worth it. There response was, "why" to which I stated that we felt it was majoring in the minors and it was better to give the best possible color...
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Re: Ricoh Tier (ricotier) Color Page Cost?

SalesServiceGuy ·
Not all copier vendors can offer 3 Tier pricing. Besides the built in technology, a significant investment must be made in the back end accounting system to handle these extra line items on the invoice. Furthermore, via service code it is possible to vary what that the toner coverage thresholds are making the entire process rather arbitrary and very hard to certify. I would suggest that you be a little cautious if the successful vendor asks you to install proprietary software on your network...
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