Tagged With "dealer"

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Re: 6 Reasons Why Flat Rate Service Program Will Change the Copier Industry

TomO ·
Art, a terrific take on the changing forces in the business model of the industry. Moneyball has arrived in the imaging business.
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Re: 6 Reasons Why Flat Rate Service Program Will Change the Copier Industry

Art Post ·
Thank you Tom, writing it brought back some awesome memories
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

fisher ·
If anything you should be bumping outright purchase prices and discounting leases. The customer who purchases their equipment outright keeps their equipment too long and may go elsewhere when the time comes to upgrade anyway.
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Kyocera Guy ·
Maybe not such a bad thing. This makes shorter term leases with less interest more attractive and therefore leases can be turned faster as long as your not padding your leases to begin with.
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Old Glory ·
This bill may not apply to Fair Market Value leases. There is no mention of establishing the residual value of the asset which makes the interest rate impossible to calculate. Is a .0278 rate on a 36 month FMV truly -0- interest? Of course not. If you don't end up with title to the equipment, you really haven't financed anything. What is the interest rate on a Hertz Car Rental? What is the difference between that an a 36 mth FMV other then the length of term?
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Lease Maestro ·
Hello Art and the rest of the P4P members - Our industry association (ELFA), along with several independent law firms that represent many of our industry members are reviewing this legislation to determine the actual effects it will have on the industry as a whole and to provide guidance so that our members will be in compliance with the legislation. What we know at this point is that is you are involved in offering financing to businesses in California, you will be subject to this...
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Czech ·
Padded lease rates are used to "pad" the pockets of dealer principals who are taking commissions away from their sales people. It's a dishonest but standard practice that should be eliminated, so this sounds like healthy change in the right direction.
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Art Post ·
In some cases, more is made on the lease padded rate than the salesperson makes in commissions. Others may tell you that they use the "padded" rates to create promo's for the reps. Do I look like I need an incentive to sell? Frak that, if you need an incentive to sell then you need to get a job at Mickey D's
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Lease Maestro ·
Here is a report from leasingnews.org. One of their legal editors is doing a three part review of this legislation. Leasing News Exclusive: State Senator Steven Glazer and the genesis of CA SB 1235 (Part 1 of 3) By Tom McCurnin Leasing News Legal Editor This is important not only if you are doing commercial business in California, but this may affect other states. If you are new to this, here is legislation passed both the assembly and senate, awaiting California Governor Jerry Brown’s...
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Lease Maestro ·
Part Two: Leasing News Exclusive: The Opposition and How Senator Steven Glazer Got SB 1235 Passed (Part 2 of 3) By Tom McCurnin Leasing News Legal Editor The bill was "Engrossed and Enrolled" and presented to the Governor at 5 p.m., September 12th, awaiting his decision to sign or veto. How He Pushed It Through the Legislature What are the takeaways from this interview and SB 1235? ▪ First , I Was Surprised at the Overwhelming Support of Trade Groups for the Bill. When he rattled off the...
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Lease Maestro ·
Part Three Leasing News Exclusive: Is the Disclosure Too Complicated? State Senator Steven Glazer Position on CA SB 1235 (Part 3 of 3) By Tom McCurnin Leasing News Legal Editor The bill to require full disclosure of interest rates is awaiting Governor Jerry Brown's signature. It was reviewed to be recorded and sent to his office late last week. It seems unlikely he will not sign it as it passed the State Assembly 72-3 and in the Senate 28-6 .It then will be up to the California Department of...
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End for the Padding of Lease Rates?

Old Glory ·
from today's Leasing News. Ralph Petta Reaction to Tom McCurnin's "Is the Disclosure Too Complicated? of SB 1235" [ http://leasingnews.org/hires/petta_ralph2018.jpg ] From: Ralph Petta President and CEO Equipment Leasing and Finance Association 1625 Eye Street, NW * Suite 850 Washington, DC 20006 "Allow me to take exception and set the record straight with respect to Mr. McCurnin's statement in his September 21 article(1) about passage of disclosure legislation in California, SB 1235 that...
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

AOSGROUP ·
I love the idea! I've tried this in the past with Kijiji or Craig's List with little success. I was wondering if you had any stats that this worked or that the leases were successfully transferred? Thanks!
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

Kitz ·
Seems simple and I would guess most of questions such as shipping of equipment, fee's for shipping, dealer support in the area unit is transfered etc. can all be answered?
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

Kiwispike ·
Tried this recently but haven't found anyone to take it up, issue I have had is often the remaining lease is above the market rates at the time. But its a fantastic concept.
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

Art Post ·
Originally Posted by Kiwispike: Tried this recently but haven't found anyone to take it up, issue I have had is often the remaining lease is above the market rates at the time. But its a fantastic concept. I agree when the market rate is above what you can buy it for, however, but you just never know. Recently we had the Sandy disaster here in NJ. Many companies moved in for one or two years to help with the rebuilding process. They would be viable candidates to assume a lease that may have...
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

Un-Lease.com ·
Thanks for all of your questions and comments! To answer the first question by @AOSGROUP, we've had some success in our local area of Toronto, Canada. The transactions were completed manually before launching the marketplace. The current version of the marketplace was only launched this past January, so you guys are the early adopters. Transactions can take the form of either a lease assumption (where one credit-approved client assumes the lease of another as-is), or a split-buyout (where...
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

Un-Lease.com ·
@Kitz: Dealer support is also a great question. Currently we approach this on a case-by-case basis. New transfers would go to an affiliated partner in the geographical territory that is qualified to service that equipment. Ultimately, we are building a network of independent dealers not unlike what the direct channel already has access to. This way, independent dealers can leverage the network for new contracts as well, such as when a sale is made to a head office that includes installations...
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

fisher ·
How does this square with the fine print on every lease doc I've ever read regarding assignment or transferring the lease by the lessee??? Who goes to jail if the lease doesn't get satisfied????
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Re: Assume My Copier Lease....What?

Art Post ·
Originally Posted by fisher: How does this square with the fine print on every lease doc I've ever read regarding assignment or transferring the lease by the lessee??? Who goes to jail if the lease doesn't get satisfied???? Fisher: The assumption process is one that I've seen leasing companies do from time to time. You have to get the blessing of the leasing company first, and credit approval for the new leasee.
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Re: Is it Frowned Upon if you Join a Competitor?

Wallingford ·
If you were unsuccessful where you are, but are unhappy with the company or the product, then moving should not be a problem. But if you were successful, and happy, and only the money was the inducement to move, then I suggest you have a good chat to your current dealer/manager before jumping ship, as "the grass is never greener" in most case. And if that turns out to be the case, then you will very quickly become dissatisfied and move on once again which could easily become the descent into...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
Art, it's a part of the industry that I doubt you will get rid of. I would like to add my own "observation". I don't think that 99.9% of dealers do a good deal. If 99.9% was the case these instances would not even be noticed because they would be unheard of. I think the reality is that around 60-70% of dealers are OK. Another point is that the leasing companies do not give a damn about the state of the copier at the end of a lease. As long as the customer has made all the payments they're...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Art Post ·
Grant: Thanx for the comment, here in the US there is the trade agreement also but it varies from dealer to dealer. If the customer opts to return the system then the dealer has the option to buy the equipment.
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Old Glory ·
Sorry Grant but I have to call you out.It is a big mistake for salespeople to assume that what is true in their case, is true across the board. It causes the salesrep to make mistakes in judgement and may cause them to unintentionally misinform their prospect. Anything that isn't required by law is negotiable and therefore will vary from lease company to lease company and dealer to dealer. So two dealers using the same lease company may have negotiated different terms.
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
Even if the contract with the supplying dealer specifically has a clause that says the dealer will NOT buy the kit back, the lease co don't want it. I have never heard of a leasing company actually asking for the kit back at the end of a lease, they aren't interested. It's not part of their business plan. What is required as a condition on every lease is that the lessee is responsible for returning the equipment to a destination of the lease co's choice. If it does come to that it will go to...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Old Glory ·
That's not really the point I was trying to make. The point is that a salesrep shouldn't assume anything as fact because the facts vary from dealer to dealer and lease to lease. That having been said, you are missing a big part of the lease equation and that is the "alternative forms of revenue" that comes at the end of the lease. Anytime a lease is ended effectively, the lease company loses the chance of an automatic renewal (evergreen clause), in some cases they lose the chance to sell the...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
It's easy to work out where the lease co's make their money. Every time a deal is upgraded early the early settlement discount is a paltry sum (3%). The effective interest rates are therefore huge. This settlement is then more often added to a new lease and interested lumped on top of that. There's no factoring in of a residual kit value for the lease companies, too little money for too much effort and management. That's why they don't handle the kit and insist the customer or dealer does...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Old Glory ·
Again, you are stating as fact things that are only true for you or possibly only true in the UK. Over here, I haven't seen an early settlement discount in years. Many companies actually have a pre-payment penalty. The settlement added to the new lease that you speak of is only a benefit to the lease company when the new deal goes to the incumbent. And if there is no residual, why isn't the equipment free to the dealer at the back end? The price to the dealer whether contracted in advance or...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Art Post ·
I did a search on the web for the company I was speaking about and I found out that there is a law suite pending against for 25 missing copiers!! Where there is smoke there is fire!
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
" Many companies actually have a pre-payment penalty". Any clause which is an attempt to penalise a party if they try and terminate a contract early is illegal in the UK. This is not the same as liquidated damages clauses, where the injured party is entitled to compensation. I'm pretty the same legislation applies in the US?
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Old Glory ·
How is it that you are familiar with the laws in the U.S.? Tell me what this is if not a pre-payment penalty? "...You may not payoff this Agreement prior to the end of the Agreement term without our consent and We may charge You, in addition to the other amounts owed under this Agreement, an early termination fee equal to five percent (5%) of the total amount We paid for the Equipment. 9. USE AND MAINTENANCE. You agree that the Equipment is owned by Us and will be used for business..."
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
I do a lot of "contract disassembling" and am very successful at it - It's kind of like a fun sport or hobby to me. US & UK contract law are almost exactly the same. That would be an unenforceable penalty in both UK & US. Here's a reference to "Penal Damages" on Wikipedia that refers to US law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_damages Most of the people I know who work in the copier industry are of the belief that these clauses are legal and enforceable. That works to my advantage,...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Art Post ·
I've almost never seen a disputed copier lease where the lessee wins. I'll admit I'm no expert in leasing however most of these agreements are rock solid.
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Old Glory ·
I will never understand why Business Equipment Leases do not fall under the Truth In Lending laws that apply to everything else.
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Art Post ·
That's a great question, it should, it would drive more paperwork, however the leasing industry would be better off in the long run. Originally Posted by Old Glory: I will never understand why Business Equipment Leases do not fall under the Truth In Lending laws that apply to everything else.
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
I'm not sure if that has an equivalent in the UK. here we have the Consumer Credit Act. However, it only applies to consumers. Business to business isn't covered (except in a small number of cases). "I've almost never seen a disputed copier lease where the lessee wins. I'll admit I'm no expert in leasing however most of these agreements are rock solid." In my experience the reason why they're perceived as rock solid is because they are rarely challenged. If they're not challenged they'll...
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

Old Glory ·
You obviously deal with this much more than I but tell me this...Regardless of past emails and/or conversations, if the customer can prove that they own the equipment then they have proof that the leasing company leased an asset they didn't own. What more do you need?
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Re: Copier Scams Part Deux "Dude Where's my Copier"?

GrantW ·
No doubt it's fraud, that's an open and shut case. But I may never get to the bottom of why the individual in the organisation signed the agreement. I'll leave that to the imagination. It's a tough one as well, it was signed by the sister of the owner of the business!!
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Wallingford ·
What came next with some dealers in the Oz market, was a guarantee that the client's copy costs would not rise annually, above a maximum of 10% which most clients would agree to. Or that it would only rise by the CPI, which these days is a joke of a deal, as it is only around 2%. But some now guarantee to hold the pricing for the term of the rental agreement, which at 5 years is just down right stupid.This has now become a lot more prevalent, as weak salesmen sell (if you can call it...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Wallingford Thanx for this! From your thread I can tell we all have most of the same issues. Anyone else care to help with their first experience with CPC?
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

txeagle24 ·
I've only been around 9 years, but when I first started, we were selling the old Ricoh AP3800CMF (A3 color printer w/ a scanner kit attached to make it an MFP) since the 1224c/1232c was such a bust. In our Service Agreements, black toner was included in the CPP, but color toner was billable. When trying to get those customers to upgrade to the 2238c, I would create a cost per page analysis (since toner was included in our CPP for the 2238c) and had several furious customers who thought we...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

John Saramak ·
I remember it well and at ComDoc, in the early 80's we sometimes put the offer out there without it being a formal price plan. I think the customer realized that a lot of the toner they purchased and stocked was useless at end of the machines life. It was like a primer with a customer who had that and TCO on their mind, it was a way to close them. Equally, I remember taking it one step further in the early 90's with copy management - the first all inclusive (hardware, service, supplies)...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Old Glory ·
I remember a plan that didn't really take hold but it was a plan like the one John talked about and all accessories were proposed in the form of copies...you want a finisher, just commit to 10,000 additional copies per month. The CPC rate had an equipment portion attached to it so more clicks funded more equipment. If the CPC was normal plus .003, 10,000 clicks added $30/month which would fund $1,500 additional. Some customers that weren't willing to pay $1,500 would agree to 10,000 more...
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Re: Does anyone have a clue as to how the CPC billing model started in the first place?

Art Post ·
Wow! These are some awesome stories, I'm sure there are many more out there from some of our veterans, would love to read more.
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Re: The Right Used Equipment Strategy Can Help Your Profits Soar

fisher ·
It's not how you sell it's how you buy. If you buy right you can make great profits on low meter pre-owned gear while selling it for half the price of equivalent new.
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Re: Nine Serious Issues For Today's Copier Dealers

Larry Kirsch ·
Nice work.
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Re: Nine Serious Issues For Today's Copier Dealers

Art Post ·
Thanks Larry!!
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Re: Nine Serious Issues For Today's Copier Dealers

Larry Levine ·
Art I would love to add a 10th to your list.... The transformation of sales reps inside a digital business world. Educating, inspiring and transforming sales reps! This is a huge issue inside dealerships. Sales reps must learn a digital set of sales skills.
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Re: Imaging Channel, Let's Become the Innovation Channel!!

Jf ·
Geo-strategic picture. Just great, Ray!
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Re: Imaging Channel, Let's Become the Innovation Channel!!

Art Post ·
Ray Good stuff, however when discussing imaging (which is a wide portfolio of devices), everyone seems to forget about the huge growth of niche imaging devices. Those devices include wide format, grand wide format, label presses, and envelope presses. While in Las Vegas in the spring of this year, I was able to attend the ISA Sign Expo. I've been to a lot of events in the past year and the ISA was the largest event I every attended. Two hundred thousand square feet of convention space with...
 
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