Skip to main content

Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh

Heard from a friend who is a Canon dealer.  That dealer states CBS is dumping machines to his existing base and selling in most cases for 20% less than his cost!! 

 

Also went on to state that CBS and Canon Dealers have no "Rule of Engagement" like Ricoh Americas.

 

I used "Pulling a Ricoh" due to many years ago, Ricoh Direct was attacking dealer accounts with the same tactic that I heard Canon is using. Personally, I lost some of my biggest accounts in the course of two years. 

 

Ricoh now has a "Rules of Engagement", that dealers and direct need to abide by.  For that, I'm happy, however it doesn't bring back those accounts that I lost.

 

Keep in mind it was the Dealers that signed on with the likes of Canon, Ricoh, Sharp, Toshiba, Mita, Konica, and Minolta back in the late seventies and eighties, that built the channel.  Today, at least in my territory,  I have pressure from every manufacturer from the Direct Channel. Mind you, I'm not complaining, competition is good to a certain extent.

 

Are other Canon dealers seeing this from CBS?

 

-=Good Selling=-

If you like something I've posted please feel free to click the "like" button!

Add Comment

Comments (36)

Newest · Oldest · Popular
Frankly in my experiences the vendor (oem) will try to obtain the business , then negotiate with the dealer if they are unsuccessful going direct. Sounds like the game plan they employ.. Suggest working those things out prior to channel conflict. Long range consequence tends to upset customer who then selects another manufacturer altogether. Best wishes to those who encounter these circumstances... Try settling before not after..

We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard to find) ways around Rules of Engagement.  One example I will use is a former customer I had that had all of their local Ricoh MFP placements with me but had a few old units from Xerox locally & several Ricoh units in a different market from RBS.  The customer was looking to upgrade a Ricoh machine that I had placed a few years earlier.  Ricoh went in and gave them pricing that was 25% lower than I could offer, & when we brought up ROE, we were told that ROE didn't apply, because RBS wasn't replacing my unit, they were replacing the Xerox & moving the Ricoh to where the Xerox used to be.  We were also told that it was a shared account due to the out-of-town placements, so it was fair game.

 

The other that we've seen is Ricoh going into an account in which we had the lion's share of the MIF (less a few owned competitive units), & Ricoh would go into the account claiming there was a Managed Network Services opportunity, even though they were in there trying to replace their MFP fleet.  As soon as they submit pricing, the damage is done.

Originally Posted by Christi:
Art,

Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product.

 

I too have seen personally very high management within Ricoh deal with the local branch in our area in regards to this. There was one account of ours they wouldn't leave alone and our President, and several Ricoh management had a conference call with the sales rep and  the local branch manager and it was set in stone that the rep would be fired if he were to do anything in that account. We never had another issue with that customer being targeted by RBS

Art,

Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product.

I was employeed by CBS (now CSA).  I moved my family back to the east coast after working for 6 years in the Portland OR area for CBS as a production print specialist.  Perhaps things have changed since I left CBS 2 years ago to come back to a Canon dealer... I was beaten and battered (related to my cost) when I was at CBS by all 5 local dealers.  I now manage a sales team for a Canon dealer.  We have never lost to CSA in the 3 years that I've in this position. In fact, I had a promo running for my team that simply found CSA/OCE serviced products in their territories. For those who are losing to CSA, are you using every available CSMP dollarwhere you can?  CUSA has a tremdous number of buying programs that dealers can take advantage of.  Please feel free to reach out to me. 

Originally Posted by TML:
CSA operates under a lawless abandon.  Their number one goal is to move boxes even at a loss.  While they didn't lose as much this past year, they still didn't turn a profit for CUSA (canon USA) and no one at the top seemed to care.  Having met some of the top tier dealers in the northeast, the sore in every single independent dealers side is canon solutions america / canon business solutions.

  We all know competition is out there, but to have to explain why us as a canon independent dealer is a better route than CSA to a customer gets a little sticky.  I had a 4 unit deal at a current 15 year old customer in 2014 where I wasn't marked up too heavy and I was around $49-50k.  The CSA rep came in, apples to apples, and was quoting them at $37k!?!!  I brought it to our CUSA representation and all they said to do was sell value.  Essentially we were handcuffed but sold the hell out of value and won the deal.

There's a place for the direct outfits, but it's not in america.  Let the boxes get sold through the independent dealers where value and relationships can be built and nurtured.

WOW, I can sell value with the best of them, but when the difference is $12k, well that's kind of tough. 

 

Hey, we all know their support and service is suspect and sometimes downright horrible.  But, how do you explain that to a customer that knows SH&T from Shiola?  Most if they have not done business with Direct perceive them as the best choice. I hate to sling mud...

CSA operates under a lawless abandon.  Their number one goal is to move boxes even at a loss.  While they didn't lose as much this past year, they still didn't turn a profit for CUSA (canon USA) and no one at the top seemed to care.  Having met some of the top tier dealers in the northeast, the sore in every single independent dealers side is canon solutions america / canon business solutions.

  We all know competition is out there, but to have to explain why us as a canon independent dealer is a better route than CSA to a customer gets a little sticky.  I had a 4 unit deal at a current 15 year old customer in 2014 where I wasn't marked up too heavy and I was around $49-50k.  The CSA rep came in, apples to apples, and was quoting them at $37k!?!!  I brought it to our CUSA representation and all they said to do was sell value.  Essentially we were handcuffed but sold the hell out of value and won the deal.

There's a place for the direct outfits, but it's not in america.  Let the boxes get sold through the independent dealers where value and relationships can be built and nurtured.
Had a deal recently that we were the incumbent and CSA came in and placed the exact same machine as we tried. Customer gave us the quote and our true cost was around 14,000 or 15,000 and they sold it to them around $9,000.00. Anytime CSA is in a deal there is a very small chance of winning. The only thing we have going for us is their service is very lousy so after the lost sale we usually pick up a service agreement at some point.

Ricoh has been good about enforcing the rules of engagement in our market but Canon has none that I am aware of. There have been several deals our DSM has had them walk away before any pricing was given and we were able to hold our margins.

I was just told the other day that CSA has to be and is, profitable now. Sounds like the same BS I hear all the time from Ricoh about RBS.

I personally think all these branches will be sold for pennies on the dollar at some point like in the past.
Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×